kitchen

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Newsette on February 20, 2010 at 2:46am

This is a warning dream. you son could be about to be snared by the enemy through works of sin. Intercede for him. I pray this hasn't already happened.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Mann on March 13, 2010 at 12:20am

Hi Barbara,

For your prayerful consideration...I am seeing that you are in preparation for ministry, maybe just coming into it or about to. I believe the Lord is showing you there is a cleansing that needs to happen in order to move forward. Something that needs to be gotten rid of, but the drain is clogged. It will require a humble heart and repentance. Do you know what you are called to do?

Blessings,
Lisa

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barbara Bartell on March 13, 2010 at 2:15am

I really don't. I've been trying to listen to the Lord as to what the clog is. I'd appreciate your prayers and any input you might receive from the Lord as to what the clog is and the direction of ministry it could be. the one outstanding thing that has gone on since I was Baptized in the Holy Spirit in 1971 is the Gift of the Word of Knowledge and some gifting of discernment of spirits.

I seem to be in a transition stage at this point and on hold. I'm not attending church services anywhere because what I believe which is what is confirmed in Mark Virkler's teachings is of no interest to the group where we went to church for about three years and of no interest to other church groups where we have gone in the past, anywhere from three to five years each place. I feel like God has something in mind and I know i could help. For example this past week, I felt to call a lady I know who came out of a rules and regulation church to accept the Lord as her Savior, to tell her the things the Lord told me, I felt it was were very important to give to her for her consideration and the Lord had given me a dream about her, which i didn't tell her I had had. The concern was/is that the light that was lighted in her when she was born again, that she has lost her focus and is being consumed by the empathy/sympathy she recieves from church people which doesn't help her at all to keep on coming closer to the Lord,as well as other truths and when I finished telling her these things with the atitude it was just for her to consider and listen to the Lord. Either I was on the mark or I wasn't. She told me I had hit it on each issue. I was glad about that but not glad to know it was also the truths of her.

Thank you for taking your time to listen to the Lord for me and then relaying it on.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Mann on March 13, 2010 at 10:25am

Hi Barbara!

Could you help me understand a little more about your church situation? What is it that you believe that doesn't fit into the churches you've been in?

Blessings,
Lisa

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barbara Bartell on March 13, 2010 at 8:09pm

The teachings of Mark and Patty Virkler. No one is interested.

After attending a Pentacostal church for about two and a half years, last January,09, I felt with all my inner being if I don't get out of here I'm going to die! I was starving to death. It was a matter of spiritual life or death.The doctrines of truth and error, taught from the pulpit which the pastor is sincere in his beliefs of and of what he is doing, are the same I heard in the seventies in the same denomnational Pentacostal church, but now more then ever, it's more talk about a relationship with the Lord0, then understanding how to accomplish that. The teachings as to how to have a relationship with Him, give mixed instructions, it's all surface activity to achieve it, all the things that Mark Virkler said didn't work and they don't. I've tried them too.

I took the :How To Hear The Voice Of God", workbook to the pastor to take a look at and also so he would know where I was coming from, In about three weeks i asked him for it back because I had someone who wanted to take a look at it, in all that time he never said a word about it. He hadn't looked at it at all and said, I'll do that this week, so he scanned it and I got it back. His few comments were minimal. That was it.

since November 08, I have asked four times, if a youth group could be started with teachings about and the value of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit., He always responsed well, as soon as we get some of these other projects going, we're thinking about it, my wife and I. The last time I talked to him about it,this past fall, I had heard that there was going to be some kind of prayer group near where we live, so I called him about it, he said, "no, we're working on my race car over at Marvin's shop, and any of the young guys that want to come and work on it are welcome". I think he bought the car which he raced last summer and which my boy was the only young fellow that worked on it, in order to bring attention to the church and encourage people to come. that's my own idea, I don't know if it's accurate. my son and the other young man are the only two fellows, the other young people are girls, maybe ten of them, including the pastors two daughters. My 16 year old daughter made the comment, that it shows the young people what his prioritys are. I thought she hit right on the mark.

I also quit going to the church last January 09, because I felt I have to find out what do I believe in my heart and what is my true relationship with the Lord. It's been a year of big adventures in the kingdom within, And in this year, from this church group, mainly because I called them to say hello, there were only two people who called me to say hello, how are you. Not even for my children were they interested for their well being, did anyone call. No one asked if there was anything going on. And yet, this group feels they are a very loving group, very caring. It just doesn't jibe with my understandings of what agape love is. In a very mild way, I shared the workbook, with two women who go there, women who I have known for forty years, who claim to really love the Lord and believe that, They weren't interested.

In all the years I've gone to church, Pentacostal or not, I've never heard teachings about walking with the Lord within your own spirit, so He can address what He knows you need and bless you accordingly. Never have I heard any teachings on dreams and their importance.

I am Baptized in the Holy Spirit, speak in tongues (as are all my children,)and it's one of the greatest blessings that ever happened to me. Now not even that is a prioirty in the pentacostal church and what's worse, the churches that don't believe in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are even deader.

I feel like I'm just "walking the floor" over the determined blindness of this group, I know how their lives are cratered and they just keep batting their heads against the wall, claiming it's the Lord's will that these disasters are happening to them, they can't see, won't consider that there are root causes, they just want to deal wiith the results. Well, they will always have plenty to do that way as they focus on the results. But, it grieves me,

i think of going to church sevices again, but I feel vunerable from the mixed doctrine, the sublimnal messages of disasters, the negative effects of the preaching, which I seem to soak up in spite of myself and then have to through a "detox" to get rid of. and it's always we ought to be doing this, ought to be doing that. You come out feeling like a total failure and what oil in your lamp you had when you went in is gone or nearly gone and it takes you a week to recover and then you are right back in the same situation where people are smiling, saying how are you? oh, just fine! syndrome. It's skim milk warmed over mixed up with elements that shouldn't be in it. What I've heard there when I first began going there is what I'm still hearing the last four times I went in November 09, just to check it out, and check me out. you don't gain in your Christian understanding/knowledge/walk. .

To wrap this all up, I'm looking for reality of relationship with the Lord. I don't want to stay in a box, theirs or mine, of beliefs and attitudes and the outward actions.

I am being judged as falling away from the Lord, a troubling factor in their midst, failing in the Christian walk, etc. The only way I can seem to have their acceptance/approval is to agree with everything they have going on and I just can't do it. I'd be lieing, a fake. It bothers me that my three children haven't christian fellowship but in honesty it wasn't happening there and it didn't in the last pentacostal church we attended for nearly six years, before it cratered again.
They were the only teenagers but one other and he wasn't interested,

We have some friends we associate with, non-Christians and we all like their honest at least attitudes, they don't pretend they are something they aren't.

Mark and Patty Virkler's teachings have/are a life line for me and I'm teaching these to my chidren. Many of these we already believed through the years so it has been a blessed confirmation to me to come across these teachings and know there are others who have also found these truths.

I'm between a rock and a hard place it feels like and I don't know what to do about itbut I am going to go on deeper with the Lord, with or without anyone else in this valley. and I also feel like if I just had my act together that this situation could be resolved even with this particular church group. I don't dislike them, I feel like shaking their teeth loose sometimes!

And if you read what Lady-Mary wrote to me, I believe she is on the mark, that is just like my son and there's a lot of the same attitude in me, ready for adventure!, Still. And I keep feeling like there is something like just around the corner the Lord has for me and this clog is holding it up. Gotta get rid of it!

bb

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Mann on March 13, 2010 at 11:38pm

Sometimes God has a way of using these things to move us on.

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him. 1 John 2:27

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. Hebrews 10

Seek the Lord on where he would have you fellowship. Not only do we need encouragement and equipping, we also deprive others of this by our absence in the Body. It's been quite a journey for me as God has moved me twice in the last few years. All of this in preparation for the call to missions. He knows what we need and the Holy Spirit guides us.

I think this is the block...you are stuck in the past and he wants to move you forward. What do you think?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barbara Bartell on March 14, 2010 at 1:59am

I have prayed and prayed for this past year, asking where the Lord would like for me to go church, I haven't received any response! Just silence. It seems to me that He is working on what i need so that the condtions around me in a church wouldn't afflict me so. Other then the "Communion With God" course and my mentors, I'm pretty much on my own to know, to discover truths.
.
Having lived in this valley for over forty years, I have attended all of the Pentacostal churches in our immediate area for long periods of time until the Lord moved me on. I've attended and taught Sunday School in the Methodist church for a time. Attended and taught classes in the C.M.A. church, with the pastor's approval, but in time, the people did not want teaching about the kingdoms within and how to access it through the Lord and that came to a stop. Then the pastor retired and left and it was a whole new "ball game". I know from experiece the conditions of the local churches.

churches in this area are a sad sight. I see at the school in the small town north of us, nine school buses full of children, high school and grade school and that is just one school,. and yet in every church there are few children attending, and more elderly people then couples with teenagers, the younger couples that do come with their children aren't a great number either and yet each of the four town in this valley, all about ten miles apart each have many school buses full of children. In the biggest town, the Assembly of God church, quite a mansion, have their pews about full on Sundays, some of the other pentacostal ones, almost, but here again, not many young people, and the other smaller churches, anywhere from twenty to forty people attending, mostly older people.

I feel the block is a deep wounding that occurred when I was a small chlld continuing through my childhood and teen age years, which strengthened the conditions of it. I mentally can think of it, but in my heart, i feel it is not all taken care of yet. To confront such wounds, is a very painful experience which I have experienced many times, from confronting other wounds within. . So, i guess in that way you could call it stuck in the past, except I'm not agreeing to being stuck!
bb

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barbara Bartell on March 14, 2010 at 1:46pm

P.S.
Also, I feel like the clog is something in me, not in other people. One of the wisdoms the Lord told me this past year, is that what I am searching for, I won't find in the church. It rang in as truth, and I could also agree because I have looked and didn't find. What I need is whatever it is the Lord needs to take care of within me. I feel like this past year was a year of restoration of me, with still some deep core issue to take care of. So, I'd appreciate your prayers that the Lord will show me what the "clog" is and the sooner the better.
bb

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lisa Mann on March 14, 2010 at 9:05pm

I think you're right on, Barbara. That seems to be the process he uses with many of us...loving on us to heal us up, show us who we are to him, then the work begins. LOL In my experience, the thing that usually keeps me from cooperating with him hasn't really been pain, but rather FEAR of pain. When in reality, the whole process of him taking care of those things is that he TAKES the pain so that we are free...unclogged! Sometimes, all it takes is us being willing to "go there" and just lay it all out at his feet, even in our minds eye placing it in his hands in the spirit, literally giving it to him, turning it over to him. This is why he died--he took all our pain and hurts, both physical and emotional, on him and it is finished. We don't need to carry it around anymore and be bound up by it. There are sometimes lots of tears as we are "cleansed" of these things, but he has just lifted stuff off of me...and I have even had dreams of it when he did it, letting me know it's taken care of. So this hurt that you have when you were young that you feel might be the block...he bore it for you on the cross. Why carry it around? He loves you so much and he wants you to be free. You don't have to bear any of the grief or shame or pain--whatever it is. Because he's there with you always, through the whole thing--He loves you.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Joy Rustan on April 27, 2010 at 11:50am

Jesus said to me that all of us are broken. He wants the broken and the weary for His own. This also means churches are broken. So I have chosen a rather large church to attend for the sake of my children. It's not about me going to church anymore to get from the sermons, it's about going to church to help the people there see Jesus inside of me. It's about youth groups and friends for my children. It's about ministering to others who need comfort and showing them that there could be more to Jesus than they are already aware of. I am asking Jesus to show me the ones He wants me to minister to.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barbara Bartell on May 1, 2010 at 3:10am

Thank you for writing, taking the time and thought.

I agree churches are broken and not just because "we" are the church, I say, from the pulpit on down, beginning with the Bible colleges that train the ministers..but Jesus also came to heal and to give life more abundant.

I don't see this attitude in the churches, the people are taught that to survive, they must cling together, that they won't make it without each other. that it's a group thing, group intelligence, group perceptions. The individual is not valued by the group., But the individual is valued by the Lord. He came and comes to save the individual, to be with the individual.

The group mentality doesn't ring true to me, because the Bible says, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" and many other verses that I believe give support that Christ is sufficent. We stand in His strength, together,

I want my children to have the essence of Christianity,and that truth is vital, the foundation of Christianity.What we have run into in churches in this area, is that you are more valued as a body to fill the pew then you are as an individual and if you disagree with the content of the message, the group attitude, you are viewed as a threat, a troublemaker, and although you may continue to be present, you are no longer a part of the group.

The youth led by the example of the adults, have little concept of relationships, where true friendships can develop and there be trust between the friends. That disturbs me.

The church,I believe ought to be a place where truth is treasured, is seen as a "pearl of great value". That truth is understood as the path to answers, solutions for life. That truth can be good truth or bad truth, but in the reality of it, you find solid rock to stand on. and that the church would be so secure in the Lord, that it does not feel threatened by something different then what it believes and would welcome searchs/discussion until the Lord's truth was found on any issue. I've yet to find a church where truth is ever valued and not once in all the years I've gone, have I ever heard such taught from the pulpit or in a Sunday School class. I believe this is a vital concept. As God only speaks in truth, how can a person perceive His meanings when they don't recognise, don't realize the existance of absolute, the value of truth the context of His language?

I think you can see how important it is to me what is spoken from the pulpit and in the classes.

I enjoy people and fellowship with them, I too, like to be available to help and yet the kind of comfort that is desired and promoted as "caring" in the church, is only accepable in the form of dealing with the results of bad roots that will go on producing as long as they exist, so there will always be needs in people and they really are suffering from the results, but it is tragic that their true needs are not met whereby they could have deep inner healing and no more bad results. I believe true caring would include this kind of help for those deep condtions that are destroying people. I believe in the general kind of caring, bake someone a cake, babysit, etc., but true caring needs to be well rounded, that it looks on the heart of a person to try and understand what is truly needed.

So, it really bothers me when I see my children being led to believe that surface kind of caring, the warm fuzzys I call them are the extent of caring. It really bothers me when my children question doctrine taught and are denied honest answers and a lively interest to search for truth and encouraged in it. It really bothers me when for example, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is made to seem so unimportant, so, " take it or leave it attitude".and on and on and on!

What my children learn and believe from the church attendance, the church group, the teachings from the pulpit, does and will effect them in their lives for good or evil, depending on the truth of it all. I view it as a matter ofl life and death.

barbara b.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lady-Mary on March 13, 2010 at 11:54am

Consider that your son is really a younger part of you...and is a bit braver to stick a hand into the clog...which may be something the adult you cannot do. I see how sometimes we need someone else to look at something we are too scared to look at...like if you cut your finger and you want someone else to look first.

Welcome this joint endeavor on the east side, the side of the rising of the sun, a new day, and the side the doors of the Tabernacle faced. There is an exciting next step after this rather icky one! You have all it takes if you expand your definition of yourself to embrace and draw on your youthful adventuresome side!

• ▶ Reply