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One area that may be a blessing for some of you is in contending for the faith. There is an area of my life that is an issue or thorn, if you will. While reading a book called The Thorn in the Flesh by Dr. R.T. Kendall, I learned that Paul may not have specifically told us what it was in order to allow us to be able to relate with what God was saying in a more personal way. Dr. Kendall writes that he believes that if Paul had shared exactly what it was than we may have felt like our thorn was somehow less important if it wasn't the same as his and we would miss the point.
Whatever you may have heard or be taught regarding Paul's thorn, my point is that at this time I'm going to go with Dr. Kendall for now and not be too specific. Although I may someday talk about it in more detail if I feel that it would encourage other people.
This thorn was given to me, if you will, about 5 years ago. Five is God's number for grace.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Cor 12:7-10 NKJV Emphasis Mine)
The reason that I type this here is not to get too preachy, but something has come to my attention that many of you may be facing now or will in the future come across.
The question has flooded my heart several times "Is there a stigma with what you are facing?". Actually, I'm paraphrasing to be more general in my description.
Normally I immediately respond "No!". Truthfully, as time goes on and things play out my response may be found to not be entirely true. There is a stigma. It's not because people aren't intending to be sympathetic or kind but rather there is a sense of tolerance towards some of what I'm going through that is in itself an inaccurate judgement or assessment. It stems from giving those in the world a level of untested respectability or credibility mainly through/by those in the church. Now please remember this is meant for the purpose of discussion, communication, and fellowship only.
Personally, had I not gone through it myself, I would have never seen or even believe it either. It could be said and it would be true that some of what has taken place I inflicted on myself through sin. I don't have a problem with that interpretation, although there is more than just sin involved here. Remember, Paul was given a thorn not because of sin but rather that he not be exalted above measure by the abundance of revelations. Job was tested even though God declared him to be blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.
Just before this situation really happened 5 years ago I asked God why He was asking me to do a specific task that I believed Him to be leading me to do. He said in part through our many talks "So that you can see what you are dealing with". I questioned God again due to some of the content of what that implied and He affirmed His voice to me.
Since then I have learned to interpret what really struck me as being an odd thing for God to say as to mean that what was behind relationships in my life would begin to emerge. Much of the sin that I was repenting for and dealing with has not been met with the reponse that I expected by any means. Things that I considered to be as a given were revealed to be not so, although part of my experience I believe could be prophetic. Revelations, if you will. Much of what God is going to do in His church in terms of addressing these issues may be for the future.
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. (Rev 1:1-3 Emphasis Mine)
More to come...
One area that may be a blessing for some of you is in contending for the faith. There is an area of my life that is an issue or thorn, if you will. While reading a book called The Thorn in the Flesh by Dr. R.T. Kendall, I learned that Paul may not have specifically told us what it was in order to allow us to be able to relate with what God was saying in a more personal way. Dr. Kendall writes that he believes that if Paul had shared exactly what it was than we may have felt like our thorn was somehow less important if it wasn't the same as his and we would miss the point.
Whatever you may have heard or be taught regarding Paul's thorn, my point is that at this time I'm going to go with Dr. Kendall for now and not be too specific. Although I may someday talk about it in more detail if I feel that it would encourage other people.
This thorn was given to me, if you will, about 5 years ago. Five is God's number for grace.
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2 Cor 12:7-10 NKJV Emphasis Mine)
The reason that I type this here is not to get too preachy, but something has come to my attention that many of you may be facing now or will in the future come across.
The question has flooded my heart several times "Is there a stigma with what you are facing?". Actually, I'm paraphrasing to be more general in my description.
Normally I immediately respond "No!". Truthfully, as time goes on and things play out my response may be found to not be entirely true. There is a stigma. It's not because people aren't intending to be sympathetic or kind but rather there is a sense of tolerance towards some of what I'm going through that is in itself an inaccurate judgement or assessment. It stems from giving those in the world a level of untested respectability or credibility mainly through/by those in the church. Now please remember this is meant for the purpose of discussion, communication, and fellowship only.
Personally, had I not gone through it myself, I would have never seen or even believe it either. It could be said and it would be true that some of what has taken place I inflicted on myself through sin. I don't have a problem with that interpretation, although there is more than just sin involved here. Remember, Paul was given a thorn not because of sin but rather that he not be exalted above measure by the abundance of revelations. Job was tested even though God declared him to be blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.
Just before this situation really happened 5 years ago I asked God why He was asking me to do a specific task that I believed Him to be leading me to do. He said in part through our many talks "So that you can see what you are dealing with". I questioned God again due to some of the content of what that implied and He affirmed His voice to me.
Since then I have learned to interpret what really struck me as being an odd thing for God to say as to mean that what was behind relationships in my life would begin to emerge. Much of the sin that I was repenting for and dealing with has not been met with the reponse that I expected by any means. Things that I considered to be as a given were revealed to be not so, although part of my experience I believe could be prophetic. Revelations, if you will. Much of what God is going to do in His church in terms of addressing these issues may be for the future.
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. (Rev 1:1-3 Emphasis Mine)
More to come...
Tags: Revelation, Righteousness, Sin, Trials
Views: 3
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Todd Chambers on -
In terms of what I was sharing regarding untested respectability or credibility being given to those in the world through the church, it's possible that patience endurance may be required and rewarded by God. Originally my response was to wonder why it seemed as though there wasn't engagement between what the world was saying and what I felt we believe as Christians, but I may have been short sighted. Timing is everything and it's possible that "the stigma" that I mentioned before may be answered more by those in the world rather than the church.
When they begin to ask questions and search for answers, it may be then that God uses the church to "intervene". It may not be me that God defends but rather the gospel. As people turn to God, it may only be then that things are made clear. I have written before about how my life may really only be understood completely when it is viewed far beyond my lifetime, and that may be true for us as Christians. Are they really going to get it outside of the reality/realm of eternity? There is much being taught and practiced today about the kingdom of God coming now on earth and that is much needed, but is the gospel really just about what God can do for us in the here and now? If we can be completely comprehended in this age then what will become of us in the next? Is the gospel about living a more victorious life now or in the age to come?
Over the past several years I have been going on the idea that God can teach us to be more mature and live greater lives, yet it seems that He can't be contained within my own mindset or paradigm. I keep wanting to be greater so that I can measure up and the more I measure up the more I realize that I was already beyond what I have been trying to become from the start. All that being better in God does is push me beyond limitations and over expectations so that I feel more misunderstood than when I wasn't as far along. It could just be that God has been moving beyond man-made church qualifications and teaching me to understand His qualifications. Kingdom and biblical principles verses legalism and spiritual apathy.
I'll be straight with you. It seems as though as we are being made more effective for the kingdom of God that until the purpose of God is revealed that we actually appear to be less qualified rather than more qualified.
The thought has actually come my mind several times "Can the church accept ministry in the marketplace?". My first response is to say "Yes, of course they can". The one area though that stands out is not that marketplace ministry isn't accepted within traditional church structures, but rather God's process of preparation appears to be where the conflict arises. What has worked within the church doesn't always pass with God outside the church. Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not referring to another gospel. Compromising with the world in order to win them isn't God's plan. Actually, the standard seems to go up, not down when walking with God in areas of society not normally considered to be accessible to those who follow Him. This appears to be where the church has lost touch with God's heart.
Partnership with God goes beyond some of the realities that are considered to be valuable with the existing church structure. Instead of repenting for where we have missed it and then asking God to restore and revive us, there is this apologetic posturing to win people to God. It appears to completely remove the responsibility of sin from us and the truth of God's redeeming grace being our only hope and instead replaces it with human attempts to please man. First we attempted to live for God our own way rather than to put our confidence in Him, then when that fell apart there was a change to live for God in a way that pleases man in order to impress people.
The best thing that we can do for a lost and dying world is to accept that man made attempts couldn't save us, and they certainly can't save them. Only God can save and there is no plan B. Jesus paid the price to redeem lost humanity!
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Permalink Reply by Todd Chambers on
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Gaining a place to speak to the world about the things of God is starting to become clear. My prayer now is to be able to represent or to be an ambassador of God into places where previously I may have felt to be impossible. Personally, there are times when I would like to be closer to other Christians and hope to be able to align with them as my relationship to God is made evident.
Sharing the gospel with those who don't know God is great, but I'd rather be able to connect within the church. Currently my life is such that felllowship with a local church is difficult due to pressures surrounding my personal life. As I have been writing about, these difficulties and obstacles seem to be ahead of the level of urgency and expectancy that is guiding most pulpits and ministries. It appears that this testing or proving is going to be more readily received by the unsaved and then the harvest can then be brought into the local assembly. I'm not sure why a person needs to be so proven and tested of God before it can be recognized. Instead of being helped out as a persecuted believer, there seems to be a maturing required to be able to minister to those who once held me captive. Once I'm free then and only then does there seem to be hope that what has been going on will be revealed.
So, after we overcome the world then the church takes notice? Interesting...
31Jesus answered them, Do you now believe? [Do you believe it at last?]
32But take notice, the hour is coming, and it has arrived, when you will all be dispersed and scattered, every man to his own home, leaving Me alone. Yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me.
33I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.] (John 16:31-33 AMP)
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